Hello, RM.
Hey, Zach.
How are you doing?
Dude, I'm doing pretty freaking amazing to be honest.
When it comes to interviews, what popped up in my mind first was you.
'Cause I told the label that if I have to interview with somebody, it's got to be Zach—number one.
So, thanks for having me.
Brother, thank you.
That really is your kindness and your trust, and it means the world to me—and it's meant the world since the very beginning.
And we're having a discussion.
This is, by the way, this is weird for the two of us because usually when I'm talking to you, there's—you know—I don't know—there's a bunch of other people around.
Of course.
This is a direct conversation about a body of work, bro, that is so incredibly special and unique—and so beautifully unexpected—and a journey from start to finish.
No two songs sound alike, and your range sonically and vocally—from rapping to crooning to acoustic—like, bro, it is bravo.
Like, what do you set goals before you start making this album?
First, appreciate it—uh—for noticing.
Um, actually, there was no goal, actually, you know.
After my last mixtape, I was like—lost—and wondering, like, 'Oh, what should I do right now?'
And you know, like a lot of stuff was going on with BTS.
So I had to, you know, invest my rest and the time to, you know, focus on my solo work.
And you know, as usual, I just started—I started with a song.
And, um, that was 'Wild Flower'.
And there were no goals because, you know, the word 'goals' was for the team.
Uh, you know, the message, the slogan, or the data is for the team.
And for me, my goals were—I think, you know—just to make an album.
Make a beautiful album and then release it someday.
I think that was my only goal.
You bring up 'Wild Flower'.
What is a wild flower to you?
Actually, the title was supposed to be 'Flower Works', but I changed it because it doesn't make any sense.
'Flower Works'.
I just made up that word, and you could easily get it if you compare 'fireworks' and 'flower works', because, um, there's actually no thing like 'flower works'.
Because you know, fireworks—when you think of fireworks—it's really fast, but it's still beautiful.
Lots of billions of people go to see that—maybe some short 20- or 30-minute beautiful display.
It's a festival.
But you have to prepare it for, you know, a lot of time.
You know, it's up in the sky and just falls back down so suddenly.
But, um, you know, when you compare it to flowers, you don't even know the name.
Um, I just think of the image of lying down on bare ground and holding some small flowers.
Then, you know, throw them in the sky and watch them fall back down like fireworks.
So, that's what I call the image of 'Flower Works'.
And I think BTS is like the fireworks.
Yo, lots of preparation, lots of practice, but it's so beautiful.
So many people come to see.
But for me, um, I just, you know, I started my career as a poet.
I always wanted to be a writer or a poet when I was young.
So, that's why I chose rap, because rap is rhythm and poetry, basically.
So, for me, I think someday I want to go back to the bare ground—you know, bare feet—so down to earth, and then like just throw the flowers up in the sky.
Oh yeah, this is my fireworks.
Kind of like that.
So, yeah, long story.
By the way, I can see that visual in my mind.
Did any of these songs start as poems?
Um, it actually started—I came up with that keyword—um, 7 years ago.
2015.
Like in Korean: 'Flower Works'.
Oh, I've got to make some song called 'Flower Works'.
And you know, it took, uh, almost 7 years to go from a keyword to an actual song.
Where did you save those words?
Like, did you put them in your Notes app on your phone?
Did you write it somewhere?
I wrote it down in the phone, of course.
I wrote it down in a notebook.
And actually, there's a message in our fan Army community that I wrote in 2017.
It's called Flower Works.
So, maybe after the release, the fans would notice and maybe figure out that text again.
These songs that are on this solo debut album have been living inside of you for years.
Yes, from 7 years to yeah.
Yeah.
Um, maybe a year.
Mhm.
What is your creative process like?
Because you talk about, obviously, starting as a poet, and rapping is putting those poems to a beat.
Do you freestyle?
Do you write your lyrics?
Do you mumble in front of a microphone?
How do you do it?
Technically, there would be two ways.
It could be started from a keyword, like Flower Works, or just a simple melody.
But usually starts from a keyword.
Like, yo, what am I going to—what, what do I got to say?
What do I want to say?
Or there's a beautiful track, and then, you know, the track calls for the melodies and keywords.
But usually, I think I start with the word because it's always my major and my main part.
And I don't usually mumble or just freestyle.
Um, for me, I rather build it like an architect, like, you know, from stone to stone, brick to brick.
Strategic, almost, right?
Emotionally strategic.
Like, you have purpose to everything you do.
Like, every lyric, every word, every movement has a reason.
For this album, it is so me.
So, sometimes I feel like, oh, this is so cocky.
This is so me.
But yeah, you know, I can't lie.
And yeah.
But for 'Wild Flower', it just—when I listen to the track, the melody, the right vocal, the right hook just pop into my mind.
So, sometimes a miracle comes to me, but usually it doesn't.
So, I have to figure it out.
You need a single brick.
Mhm.
Sorry.
It's so funny.
Like, you talk about a miracle.
Like, when songs just come to you, do you feel like it comes from a higher power?
'Cause a lot of artists do.
Like, Chris Martin, for instance—he thinks his best songs were given to him by the universe, like, 'Yeah.'
Yeah.
Into his brain.
Actually, you know, there's a song called 'Higher Power' in their career.
And I don't know if there's some higher power or some big existence, but maybe it's my unconsciousness and my thoughts—my frank thoughts inside.
And there's a certain timing that it comes to one, some sort of soul.
So, I think I think of it like that.
I don't know about a higher power or universe.
True beauty is true sadness.
That is a lyric in one of your records that stands out to me.
Can you expand on what it means: 'True beauty is true sadness'?
Oh, actually, um—it's track one, right?
It's 'Yun'.
And it's about a Korean painter.
He's my favorite, and I have the biggest respect for him.
Um, for his life and message.
And when he was alive, he said that he wrote down a memo: "A true beauty is a true sorrow."
So, but I just want to make it rhyme, so I changed "sorrow" to "sadness."
But "sorrow" is kind of like a more deeper, right?
When we see the line, like "a true beauty is a true sorrow" or "a true beauty is a true sadness," like we don't get it, right?
Um, like we don't easily get it.
So, uh, we have to translate on our own.
And for me, it's like, you know, when you're extremely sad and when you're extremely happy at the same time, you just shed tears.
Yeah.
Um, when we're extremely sad, we shed tears.
When we are extremely happy or impressed, we shed tears, too.
I thought about the tears.
So, like, I was like the same thing, too, because why did he say "the true beauty is a true sorrow?"
For me, um, it's about his life through the Korean War.
Korea was in danger for centuries and years and years.
We have a very tricky, very sad history.
So, through his life, he's been through all those hardships and the pain.
Um, I think it was his kind of conclusion—or like a kind of small preach—that he realized.
So, I'm trying to figure out what's inside.
But for me, um, when I see something really beautiful and really, um, I don't know—maybe artistic—I become really sad.
Maybe that's because I'm jealous.
Or maybe I'm too impressed.
Or I'm too happy.
So, it leads to madness.
Yeah.
It's so—it leads to madness—because that's why, um, when we see his paintings, his painting is black.
And, um, when he was young, he painted his paintings like his father-in-law.
His father-in-law was a painter, too.
He was a famous painter, and it was really blue and indigo—like it was sky and sea—so it's really beautiful.
But once he'd been through some very many trials and hardships, and he was in jail for months.
When he got back to real life, he started to mix all the paint colors, and you know—the colors end in black.
Right?
So, it was his madness; but when I see his madness, it's really something elegant and very beautiful.
It's his madness, and he actually said that he wrote down in a diary, "This is my madness.
This is my anger."
I'm just writing every day in my diary.
"I hate this world, but I'm trying to be a right person.
I want to be human."
I don't think I'm doing art.
I'm just being a human, and I'm writing down my every anger and beauty like every day.
So, this is like much beauty in that.
Like, there's beauty in rawness.
There's beauty in honesty and emotion—and yes.
Honesty.
Yes.
He was honesty for his whole life.
I don't know how—because in Korea, like in his age, in his time, there were people starving.
There was no food at that time.
There were right after the war, when we were like so poor—the country, the nation.
I can't even imagine, you know, like that time—how could a man think of art when he's starving and barely eaten?
No one even goes to see the paintings.
And you know: does that struggle come to mind and keep you focused when times get tough?
Right.
Create even in the darkest of moments.
Yes, his painting is actually in my living room—like the main position.
And when I see his painting, um, I sometimes really have a dialogue with it—with this piece.
Like: that's art, bro.
Yeah, yo—this is not a big deal, right?
Um, I can't deal with that.
I can't go through.
Come on—give me some bravery.
What is it like to be able to put a song on your album, but also name an album dedicated to an artist that definitely has helped you get to where you're?
At today?
I mean, that is a beautiful full-circle moment.
Yes, this is my own type of, you know, tribute.
There's a many tribute to, you know, uh, the past legends, like the Beatles or Michael Jackson, or, you know,
Tupac or Biggie, but I think there's no one that has ever done, you know, a tribute to a Korean painter.
So, as a K-pop artist, I think it's going to be really unique and fun.
It's amazing.
And in that same vein, you have shared this album with so many incredible artists—artists that everybody's heard of and artists that people are now going to be fans of.
I feel like you chose these features strategically.
What were you listening for or looking for in the artists you chose to share this album with?
Yo, with Zach Sang—I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm really answering this in my honesty.
I started music, um, with Nas and Eminem.
You know, before that, I'm just a Korean.
I, uh, my roots and my motherland are here.
So, after we went to the Billboard, like after 2017, um, I got so many things—I got
so many benefits from the whole, you know, American music market, 'cause it's the biggest—the promos, the awards.
It was great.
It was beautiful.
But I suddenly realized—just, you know, I'm just a Korean—and that doesn't mean that I'm just a Korean, so I have to do some Korean music.
It's not it.
Um, I'm just—I just suddenly felt some irresistible energy.
Just you know, I can't leave my motherland kind of like that.
So, but still, I grew up with the music from the Western world.
So, I just want to—I think that was me.
It was all mixed, and you know what?
K-pop is like that, too.
It's a mix of Western and Eastern, and, you know, dance and music—maybe hip-hop and R&B and rock—and like everything.
So, um, you know, I would—I was being greedy for this album.
I just want to put it in one single album, so the feature artists are my legends.
They're Korean legends, they're American legends, and I am really in their debt at some point of my life.
Like, I shed tears when I was listening to Badu's album when I was young, and you know, we had a really great time—um—playing 'Still Life' with Anderson .Paak.
And you know, seeing Silk Sonic performing, and um, other Korean legends—they are my teenage idols.
teenage idols.
You were—yeah—and at the same time, you were kind of fulfilling a dream or a few dreams, right?
Like, to be able to work with your heroes and also be able to showcase the music that is so ripped from your DNA and your reality—it's god.
Like, and the range in the features—you mentioned Erykah Badu.
Like, what is it like when you hear that feature for the first time?
Badu was my hero when I was young—with D'Angelo, of course—and neo-soul with 'Baduizm'.
Badu was my hero when I was young with D'Angelo, of course, and Neo Soul with the Baduizm.
Like she's a queen with her own castle.
She lives in her own castle, and she has nothing to do with the hype or, you know, the virals and stuff.
She is just a queen who made a genre, I think.
I suddenly realized her existence again through Robert Glasper's album.
It's the track's called 'Afro Blue'.
And yeah, she featured, and she sang in the track.
But I was like, 'Oh, yeah, that was Badu.'
Well, her voice is so magical, and, you know, it's like casting a spell on you.
And you listen to the music, and, like I said before, there's a strong message in the words with honesty.
And I think, 'Yo, if I sing the hook like, "Oh,
you should be a human before you do something before you be an artist, and you should keep the silence before you do something.
You should be a human.'
You should be a human.'
If Badu, you know, like the legend of the of all time, like Badu sings this hook to people,
I think it it'll be way more convincing than I sing it because I'm I'm 28, and you know, what do what what do I know about life?
Maybe a thing, but not a thing.
Maybe a thing, but not a thing.
So, yeah.
Just like that.
But okay, two sides because you you hit on something obvious, which I think about all the time.
It's like I've been I'm I'm 29.
I've been doing this.
Life has been—it's been a lot, but, like, in the same breath, you know nothing, right?
You know, you know a lot, but yet there's so much left to learn, and it's both exciting
and overwhelming—and also a little scary—because at times you want to think you know everything, but the reality is you do not.
Um, so, how does this record with Erykah Badu actually come to be?
Do you give—does she just submit her hook for the song, and you just craft around it?
Does she craft around what you've already done?
I was afraid she may think of me as very rude because I wrote all the hook and lyrics and sent to her, 'Please sing this hook with your voice.'
And, you know, it could be very offensive because she's a—she's a damn—she's a legend.
It's Erykah Badu.
But, yeah, it's Erykah Badu.
I mean, no, no, no—explanation needed.
And I sent, like, a ton of documents—like,
why I'm writing this song about the painter Yun Hyong-keun—and why he should sing this hook,
why these young people need this message through your voice.
So, she was convinced.
I felt like she was very open-minded, and she sent me a message—um—like once a month.
So, she's like, 'How's—what's happening in your life?
Um, how you doing?'
Casual.
Yeah, casual.
Like, she's so nice.
I don't feel like she's like in—she's in her age.
Like, I feel like she's like 30s when I'm texting with her.
Well, by the way, like that's a real collaboration, you know?
And some people can do those features and take on a collaboration like that and be incredibly distant, you know?
And not want to forge any relationship.
Yeah, I don't want to—I want to be seen like I'm using her, because I think there should be a specific,
like, reason that we can't reject if you have a feature on this album because it's my first solo album.
Yo, I didn't expect like these many artists could be featured on this
because it's my first solo—but still, the frequency—if I make,
when I'm on the process that I'm making a song, that I sometimes suddenly feel that, 'Oh, I need somebody's frequency to complete this song.'
Then I'm just sold out.
So, that's how it just happened.
At what point in the process does it present to you that, like, you need a feature or this song could be a duet?
Like, in—because there's a bunch of duets and obviously a bunch of features.
So, do you know before you start the song, or is it only while you're making it that you go, 'I need somebody else?'
Usually, you know, it's happening on the process.
Like, I'm writing, and I maybe could, you know,
like I have a writer's block in the middle of the song—and then like, 'Yo,
I need someone'—or, 'Mhm, like the Yun,' like if this track could be completed, I need someone way more convincing than me to spread this message.
Kind of like that.
Still Life.
What story are you telling in this song?
Um, 'Still Life' is a fun song.
Um, basically, you see the word 'still life' mostly in museums because, um, when you think of Van Gogh's sunflowers or Cézanne's apples, we see a title called 'still life'.
But, you know, since English is not my mother language,
my hobby is going to the museum and seeing all the art pieces,
and I suddenly realized that I suddenly thought of the title 'still life' as so strange because, yo, it's dead.
I mean, the flowers are all dead—like a hundred years ago.
And the painter is even dead too.
But he once gave life to the flowers through painting when he was alive.
So, it feels like it's really alive to me when I see the painting.
And 'still life' is like—when I see the title—I admit that I interpret it in two ways.
First is that, and two is like, yo, when you get questions like this—but if you get questions like, 'What are you' going to choose if you know the future—life or death?
Then I'm like, you know, like a movie actor—like 'still life'.
I want to be still alive.
Kind of like that.
So, I just want to use it—that I'm thinking of myself: my whole life is an exhibition, and I'm—maybe—a flower or an apple in a painting.
But I'm still moving forward, and I'm still alive.
So, that's what I'm talking about.
Do you think artists—through art—or even being an apple in a larger painting—ensures that, you know, through art you can kind of be alive forever?
I'm not sure, but, um, when I see art, it relieves me because I don't need to be jealous of, you know.
When I listen to some greatest albums, I become really jealous sometimes, and it's really hard.
It's really tough to get that experience because I want to just listen to music as music, but sometimes it's really hard.
Like, yo, this guy is 29, like me, and he made something like this.
Like, yo, what am I doing with my life?
I suddenly think of that because I'm a creator, too.
But when I see a painting, it's not my stuff.
I will never paint because I do suck at painting.
Have you tried?
Yeah, you have tried.
Uh, yeah, I've tried a few times.
I'm so bad.
So, that's not my stuff.
So, yeah, I gave up.
And what I'm telling you is that there's a small Picasso exhibition in Korea, and he's passed away, you know, years ago,
but his painting— was like so alive in some random East Asian country with just me and the communication and the communion.
Like, it was so—um, I don't know—some next level.
So, at that time, I felt that it's alive.
They're dead, but still alive.
Do you fuel the jealousy that you may have from listening to other people's music?
Do you end up fueling it and putting that into your own success and into pushing yourself creatively?
It's my motivation.
And you know, there's an old saying: nothing's new under the sun.
So, a culture is flowing—back and forth, east to west, west to east, maybe people to people, maybe art to music, music to culture—everywhere.
So, like my featured artists, they made me.
They made my music this day.
So, I'm a K-pop artist, but I'm doing rock, folk, R&B—um, of course rap, 'cause it's my root.
But, you know, there are no borders or boundaries.
It's just me.
What is the most challenging part of making an album like this?
When it comes to an album, people usually have a specific concept, right?
There's an intro, and they're like, you know, when you think of the Donna FM, it's a radio station concept, right?
So, it's like that.
But for me, it was just a diary.
Like, I didn't know what it was going to be in 2019 when I first started the track with 'Wild Flower'.
Like, okay, I started this track, but I don't know what the rest is going to be.
Could it be a single or an album?
I want to make an album, but I don't know yet.
So, it was like—I told you—like an architect: just brick to brick, stone to stone.
So, the most challenging thing is that you don't know what it's going to be, 'cause there's no big picture, you know.
There's no drawing.
It's like you're discovering yourself, right?
In the process.
Yeah, so, you know, I'm changing year by year, month by month.
So, I just want to watch it and just make it into one album because, you know, the world needs an album like this, too.
When you see Adele's album, the title is like 21, 25, and 30, right?
Diary.
Yeah.
So, it's so simple.
Like, so Adele gave me bravery, too.
Is there something to different colors as you release more solo albums?
Um, I guess not because, um, when I think of mono, it's like I don't know.
I feel like kind of very—what is it?
Um, complicated feelings it got me.
Because some of the tracks I'm still really proud of, but some of the tracks I just want to remove.
But I just don't want to dump it because it's my history.
It's a mixtape.
But so, I don't want to dump it.
So, I just want to make it like these two stacks of music as a diptych.
Like mono and Indigo.
It's rhyming, and it's about the colors.
In the process, when I was making the last mixtape called mono, it was a diary from 2015 to 2018.
I used to wear, like, the black clothes.
Uh, black, gray, and white.
And after that, I used to wear—I'm wearing jeans and natural colors like neutral.
So, I think it could be, you know, more kind to introduce the people how my change was coming on like this,
and mono and Indigo are going to be, uh, a funny diptych, I think.
That's, by the way, incredibly interesting—that like everything in life is reflected in the art that you put out.
Like, from even down to the colors that you wear in your clothing.
A song like 'Forg_tful'—there's a strategic spelling to that title, right?
Yeah, it's, you know, it's fun.
Um, actually, in Korea, it's called Kkonmangjeung, and I just couldn't find the same texture as it has in the Korean title.
So, like, okay, the closest one is 'Forg_tful'.
And, but, you know, it's like, oh, this is so um not fun and not charming.
So, I just—you know—it's a sense of humor.
Like, I just missed the 'e', 'cuz it's 'cuz I'm so forgetful.
This is my favorite song off the album.
Oh, really?
It's—you know what?
This is the first song that was the kickoff of the whole creative process.
I made this song like in 2019—April, I guess.
So, it was the first one that I ever completed.
How do you make it?
Like, just you and a guitar?
Like, how did the song start?
I have a close friend called John.
Basically, he's a guitarist, and we did the NPR Tiny Desk with him.
Like, he's my best friend these days, and, um, I suddenly—actually, the lyrics are saying that I'm just 26.
So, I recorded and completed all of the tracks in my 26th year.
I'm 29, by the way.
I told you, like, sometimes miracles happen, and this song—the whole song—was a miracle because I just woke up in the morning and it just suddenly popped out.
Of my mind.
Like, the whole title, the lyrics, and the hook.
And then, yeah, everything.
So, like, I just recorded it right away, um, and I brought it to John, my friend.
And, yo, I just want to make a song out of this, and I just need one simple guitar loop.
And we just recorded it in our small studio.
And, if you listen to it carefully, you could hear some really delicate sounds—I actually brought my denim jeans, you know, like this.
And there's some percussion, and that's me knocking the table like this.
So, I'm plugged in organically in the studio.
It's so fun.
That's so beautiful and so incredibly special and really such a departure from anything I've ever heard you put out before.
I mean, you hear that too, right?
Of course.
Some musicians of my friends really love the song that I just don't know why.
I was like, 'But they said, like, "Yo, this is so—um—I don't know."' It's so heart-to-heart and so organic.
I just love the song so much.
It's a folk song.
Yeah, it's a folk song, actually.
What I know as a folk song.
It's really beautiful.
It is a folk song, but what does it mean to you?
Was any part of it a risk putting it on the album?
Um, I—I like—I told you this: this song was a kickoff of the creative process.
Yeah, this is a starting point.
So I couldn't take it out of the album.
And um, it's so precious to me because everything happened in a small studio.
There's no such—um—some meaty instruments.
It's just all from my clothes, my tables, my guitars, and my hands.
So, um—yeah, I mean, I think I really needed the song because it's so me.
Um, I have a song like 'Wild Flower,' like you know, so dynamic strings and the rocking vocals, and the messages are full—you know, for the whole minutes.
But this song is like, you know, make you like arm's armor down—you know, like just put your armor down and just let's chill.
Let's take a coffee and Yo.
That's it.
Yeah.
Did you?
How did you record with Youjeen on that one?
Like, did you just send it off?
Were you in the studio, or how did it work?
For that time—like three years ago—I was like so shy.
So I asked John.
So I wrote the lyrics and the part of Youjeen too.
So like I asked John, 'Oh, I'm so shy.'
So please just bring it to Youjeen.
You're the one who arranged this track.
So I'm—I can—I can—I can have it.
I can put it on you.
Like, let's go—and then we did back and forth a little bit, but you know, yeah.
So Youjeen did record it like three years ago, too.
So—but I think she wants to—she, I've heard, wants to re-record it like recently—but we thought that that was perfect because it's so good.
Yeah, it's just the way it was.
I love the way it was.
So yeah, I just leave it behind.
It was the moment, right?
And like when you capture that, you really can't — there's no other take that will ever be better than that.
The moment.
Right.
I want to leave it in my 26.
Yeah.
Just stuck in 26.
So have any of these songs taken on new meaning to you today since when you made them back when you were 26?
The inspiration for 'Forg_tful' — the one who gave me that inspiration — was my friend, a friend of mine.
But he's — he's not, um — actually, he's far away, kind of like that.
So the song really got me — really came to me like differently this time — because, like,
okay, I'm — I'm even — I even forget about the inspiration giver of how of this song.
So the meaning of the song, the color of the song, the temperature, the texture — is always changing, and even in the creative process.
And maybe after release, it's going to be way more different, because once they're released, they're not mine anymore.
It's just up to the audience and the listeners.
So maybe, um, it could be way more different later on.
Do you feel like you lose a part of your art when you share it with everybody else?
Um, no.
Once you make it, um, and once you release it, it's mine — um — until it's not.
But once it's open, it's everybody's.
It's the same for the paintings, too.
I don't think it's on there, you know—the artists.
I think it's not theirs.
It's just, um, it's just the people's, you know.
That's what we call heritage and a legacy.
So I don't think it's a loss.
It's just a natural happening, and you know, artists have to just move on, and move on, and move on.
I already—you know what?
So forgetful of my whole process of making this album.
And I'm just thinking, like, okay, so what next?
Do you wish that there'd be a moment in time where you didn't think of what is next and just soak in what is?
Or do you like forward?
I think I like forward, for, um, at first, but you know, I'm just too young to just chill, I guess.
You know, it's my first solo.
So as a solo artist, I'm just a newbie.
So I think I'm still craving these things, and, um,
I've heard that tons of people told me that sometimes the time comes
when you can't make it—even if you want to make it.
it even if you want to make it.
So if I have something lots of going on in my inside, I have to digest it like in in any ways of my own.
So I'm trying, but you know, it's it's tough.
It's hard, but I think you know, art is like—you have to do it when you feel like dying.
Like, 'Oh, if I don't do this, I'm going to die.'
Then you should do it.
If not, I'm not recommending people to make an album or paint.
You have to need a single goddamn reason that you can't reject.
It's that burning passion—that deep, unwavering desire—right?
It just needs to be done.
You can't live if it doesn't get done.
Like historically in art, you know, it's like the still life and the mountain landscape paintings—they're all dead because, um, Donald Judd came with a small box in the 1960s.
And the painters were saying, 'Oh, paintings are dead right now—historically.'
We need more avant-garde and development.
But still, in 2022, lots of paintings are alive, and people are crazy for paintings, and lots of artists are still painting.
And for me, like you know, why do I make music?
I'm not good at rapping—more than Nas, not more than Kendrick, not more than Eminem—which are my heroes.
Or I can't sing like Erykah Badu; I can't sing like Anderson .Paak.
But why am I making music then?
Because I think I have my own single edge that I can only spread to this world, and I feel like I'm dying if I don't do this.
not do this.
So if I just like music and just make just just do it and I could just,
you know, keep it as a hobby and listen give it to the friends
and maybe just on SoundCloud and say like oh, I make music and that But you know, it's it's a professional you make money out of it.
Then you should be, um, I think you should know—you should be aware of, like, why, why you're doing this.
Well, because the reason—ultimately—is bigger than you, right?
Like, right.
To art living on way beyond the artist—and the impact that art has—yes, in your own self-discovery, but also at the same time allowing other people to discover new parts of themselves.
And, right.
genuinely felt very understood by this album.
I got a lot of influence and power thanks to BTS.
And thanks to my effort—and my whole twenties.
So, if I got power—like, what should I do?
Like, I think—you and I think there's some specific, maybe some things that these young people need in this time of the world.
So I just want to do that because I have the power, and I have a—I have lots of influence and the windows to spread.
So I think this is the moment, and I just want to do it really well.
And in my way.
Change Pt.2.
The production on this song is, dude—wild.
And the flow—the transition into the keys.
Like, where does this beat come from?
It's my old friend.
Um, he's a Korean rock legend, too.
Eon is his name—he's from the band Mot.
And, um, he's one of the biggest geniuses that I've ever known in this industry, 'cause he's, um,
I'm like a more intuitive way of, you know, when I create something—I'm like more into intuition, like the process of forgetful.
I just recorded and yo, the guitar loop—and that's it.
Like, you know, I judge, and then I bring some people.
Like you know, I judge and then I I I I bring some people.
And but him is like um this guy is like he's like a real architect like like build the frequencies
and and and the instruments and the layers like really um thoughtful and um like mathematical so magic.
So when you see a great mathematical things or or a technology you see in art, right?
Like a spaceship.
I was like, 'Things change, people change, everything changes.'
So, okay, I got to make a song with this.
But who should I work with?
But who who should I who should I work with?
So, anyway, I think of him, because maybe he could bring some unexpected things to this—and he did, actually.
The transition and the instruments, the glitch, the noise, the detuned stuff—it's so crazy and so, um, so technological—so yeah.
Meticulous and technical—and like, really did great.
Like, it's really good.
Meticulous and technical and like really did great.
Like it's really good.
He's a he's a damn genius and so the melody and and and the lyrics just comes first and then and then the beat comes next.
But the fun thing is that I never expected some beats like this when I recorded the melody.
So I visited his house, 'cause his studio is in his house—actually in a small room—and I was like so drunk at that time.
I was like, 'Hey, I brought some melodies, and I just want to work with you,' and so I recorded it with some microphone like an SM58.
That mic is not for real recording.
It's just some stupid dynamic mic.
It's a good mic, but still, it's not for recording.
And I did that, and he made a beat with that demo.
So there's a track, right?
So I tried like a few times to record on the beat again.
But I just couldn't do it, because it's strange.
But you know, I didn't get it, because there was no beat—but the melodies—and then, at first, the beat came next, and then I tried to record.
I tried to record it on the beat, but I just couldn't do it.
I couldn't help it.
I just couldn't fit the beat.
So I used the drunken demo—the whole part.
So it's a drunken demo, actually.
Like, we did it in three minutes.
Wait—is that what actually made it to the album?
Yeah.
The album.
So when I recorded it, I didn't know about the beat.
There was no beat, but just the metronome—like tick, tick.
Things change; people change.
So yeah, I mean, things happen like this sometimes.
You don't know what it's going to be.
But it came out literally perfect.
I love that song.
It's so good.
Is there like one event or a series of events that inspired that record?
It came natural because things were changing so much—a lot going on.
So I felt like, okay, I'm chasing for the timelessness and the eternity, but things do change, and I've got to just admit it—and yeah, so it's like— a wonderer.
Just—okay, things change; people change.
And I think it was fun—it was a funny part—because, um, 'Change Pt.1' was a single with Wale, and it's really about society and a positive energy.
But, um, 'Change Pt.2' is like really sarcastic and pessimistic—in some way.
So I think that's going to be fun.
Is it hard to make friends?
Um, it ain't hard to make friends, but it is hard to make friends.
Is it hard to make real friends?
Yep.
Yeah.
I mean, friends, acquaintances are in abundance, but real friends are few and far between.
Right, it's tricky because, um, I think that's tricky because of my team, I guess.
The name of the team is so big.
So some people really misunderstand about me, and they, um, act different sometimes.
So it's really hard to make friends.
But still, I'm really open, and, um, you know, like a feature—you need some specific frequency to be connected to people.
To people with you know, as friends.
And by the way, that frequency doesn't need to connect with everybody, and sometimes that frequency connects with somebody and it turns out to be a bad connection, right?
And you learn.
But you can only learn once you're in the middle of it.
That's why friends are treasures.
The real ones are.
Yeah, man.
And like that's so true, and the real ones also stick by you no matter what's going on, right?
They're the ride-or-dies.
Like, don't need to talk every day.
Could literally go without talking for months, but when they're needed, they are there.
When they need you, you are there.
It's true.
Right.
They will, they do, and I will do the same too.
That's best friendship.
It's very special.
It's so funny.
I've been silent with my friends sometimes, and my friends will hit me up forever and ever and ever.
My friends are very busy.
They're very cool people, you know?
Um, but the real ones stick with you no matter what goes on in life.
And you know, a lot of my best friends I've been friends with for 13 years, 14 years, you know?
Wow, that's the best period, I think.
It's true.
Well, because it's like you know, you ride with people through kind of before all of this, and then you ride with them through it.
And yeah, it's wild.
Most of my friends—most of my real friends—were from my teenage years.
Same for me.
Teenage years?
Yeah, 'cause they treat me like a, yo.
So what?
Okay, you're BTS—so what?
What?
Are you bragging in front of me?
They treat you like they treat you like RM, right?
Like that's, yeah, they treat me like just a boy, you know?
Number two, how did this song start?
The song was the second — um, I mean, like right after 'Forg_tful'.
So I made this song with John too, the friend who I made 'Forg_tful' with.
And um, I was thinking of Orpheus — that, um, in the myth when he was running away from hell — the wife of, um, what is it?
The hell's king.
I can't think of the name, but she tells Orpheus like, 'Never look back' when you're running away from hell.
So I think it's the old saying like, 'You shouldn't regret.'
So I think the ancient Greeks already knew they shouldn't regret — then and never look back.
And um, I just watched the movie *Everything Everywhere All at Once*, and it's about the small decisions that make your life change — and you know, we always think of...
Like, 'What if I didn't do that?'
What if I didn't bump into him or her?
Like, 'What if I didn't choose it?'
But the movies and the old sayings — the myths — are teaching us that if you want to change something, you can't change your universe.
Your version of your life is the best one.
I just have so many regrets, and regrets are so natural for me — like I do it every night, every time.
So it's like a saying to myself: 'You shouldn't — please, don't look back from now on.'
You will look back, but please don't look back — because you did your best, and you'll be the only one who can protect yourself.
So you chose your past, and you're choosing your present — you will choose your future — but you know, there could be some trials, hardships, risks, dangers — but still, don't...
Look back and enjoy the ride.
Just feel.
When you're sad, just be sad.
If you're happy, just be happy.
It's a life.
But keep going.
Mhm.
And keep going.
Yep.
Dude, really—this is a very special conversation.
I really appreciate you even doing this in any capacity.
It means the world.
Um, it really does.
It's really, really special.
Um, what do you want people to learn about you after listening to this body of work?
I just hope that they feel—that, um, you know, a young man in a K-pop band has had some success even in the American music market.
How he deals with his life—and I just want to make people think about their own lives and be happy.
They don't see the lyrics quite much these days.
I hope they could see and figure out what's inside the lyrics, 'cause that's what I've learned.
So yeah.
So it's a hard question, but I just hope they learn more about myself and about themselves as well.
RM, I cannot thank you enough for this.
I mean, really, this is easily one of the most special conversations I've ever been a part of.
So, I thank you for being honest and open and giving me the time.
I mean, really, man—I thank you.
Um, for sure—you're, I mean, I'm being honest—you're worthy.
You have been—you've always been the best interviewer that I ever met, um, abroad, man.
So, as English is—I'm having a hard time learning it—but still, I feel it.
I could feel it even with my second language.
So, I'm so grateful, and I appreciate it, and I've been expecting this interview so much.
Thank you, Zach.
I send you the most love, and again, thank you just for being honest today—and honest in this—and to get to know you more and the stories behind this album.
It's really special.
Just like RM—thank you.
Thank you.
